06 March 2009

118. First Pants Update - Wish I Had More

3/5/09 - 1:36p CDT [I dial 1-888-588-2700.]

Me, after selecting the option to leave a message b/c no one is available to take my call:
Hello, Simplicity? My name is Antoinette. I would like to sew S2700 but I am not sure what size to use. According to your pattern envelope, based on waist and hip, I am a size 8. But my total crotch length is 24", which is an 8 Average according to the pattern insert, and my back crotch length is 12.5", which is an 8 Slim according to the pattern insert. I am not sure which size to choose.

Will you please call me at 512.xxx.xxxx and let me know which size I should sew? If I don't answer, please leave a message letting me know which size I should sew. Thanks!
*****

3/5/09 - 2:41p CDT [I am in a 15-minute meeting and don't hear my phone ring anyway]

Simplicity rep:
Hello, this is Simplicity returning your call. If you still require assistance, please call us at 1-888-588-2700.
*****

3/5/09 - 4:16p CDT
Me, after selecting the option to leave a message b/c no one is available to take my call:
Hello, Simplicity? My name is Antoinette. I called earlier, and left you a message, and missed your call back. I am working on S2700, the Amazing Fit pants, but I am not sure what size to use. According to your pattern envelope, based on waist and hip, I am a size 8. But my total crotch length is 24", which is an 8 Average according to the pattern insert, and my back crotch length is 12.5", which is an 8 Slim according to the pattern insert. I am not sure which size to choose.

Will you please call me at 512.xxx.xxxx and let me know which size I should sew? If I don't answer, you'll go to voice mail again, so if you will please leave a brief message telling me which size I should sew, I would really, really appreciate it. That's all I need to know. I'm trying to sew along with friends and I'm behind and if you can just tell me this one thing, I'll be all set. Thanks so much!
*****

3/6/09 - 9:25a [I am on a 90-minute walk/ visit with friend]

A different Simplicity rep:
Hello, this is Simplicity returning your call. If you still require assistance, please call us at 1-888-588-2700.
*****

3/6/09 - 10:22a [I realize today is my husband's birthday and I have a gift to finish sewing and lots of birthday-related errands to run before the end of the business day, and I have neither the patience nor the attention to spend on one or two more rounds of this madness]

Me:
[Emits vaguely muffled scream in the privacy of my car. Drives to grocery store in stony silence.]
*****

Despite all my efficiency, which generally breeds productivity, I've spent two business days trying to get one simple question answered from the folks who wrote the book, so to speak, to no avail. Knowing that that goal is to have a muslin complete in 24 hours....

Did you wonder how Simplicity determined if we're Slim, Average, or Curvy to get an Amazing Fit? Total crotch length and back crotch length. I read every single review for this pattern on PatternReview.com, and no one addressed this unique sizing -- either the sewist compared the pattern to a sloper and adjust accordingly, or she sewed it right off her interpretation of sizing charts and instructions, with no explanation.

What size/ curvaceousness level do you think I should sew based on my measurements? I technically have one more day to cut out and sew up a muslin to fit. I can make it! If I don't get another perspective on this, I will sew out the 8 average and pray! Here are the size charts, and thanks in advance:



UPDATE: 3/7/09 - Didn't realize that clicking on the second photo above doesn't enlarge the photo much, so here it is, bigger.

17 comments:

  1. I'm so not a skilled sewer yet, so feel free to ignore me if I make no sense (especially since I have no idea what the pattern looks like).
    On your muslin, can you mark it for the smaller size but cut it for the larger size? Then when you sew the larger size you can see how it fits and maybe pin it along the marks for the smaller size if you don't like the regular so you can see how the slim looks?
    Good luck! And happy birthday to your husband

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  2. I just read post 113 (I just found you this evening) so now I see you've given time to make 2 muslins. Since you're not trying to conserve time, I change my 2 cents to make the average size first and next week make the slim size. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this goes!

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  3. I can't help you because I haven't yet managed to make a pair of perfectly fitting pants, but yeah I'd go for the average and adjust in the second muslin if necessary. Or make it in the slim and use a muslin that has lycra in it - like your fashion fabric. Good luck! p.s. Good grief you're petite! I'm the same height as you but way wider...

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  4. I'd probably go with the larger and take in where it's too big. It's always easier to take in than let out. Since it's a muslin, if they're huge, you'll know to go w/ the slim style. You could also try grading it to different sizes, in the parts where you need the larger size.

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  5. As others have said start with the average and then go down do slim, if necessary. If possible you can always use some extra fabric and mark both S and A on your muslin pieces to speed up the process. Interesting way of choosing size/body type BTW, I have never seen back crotch length used as a guiding measurement before. Do the shape of crotch differ much between the body types?

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  6. How kafkaesque this situation with Simplicity!
    I agree with the others. Go for average, check the fit and adjust from this base. Don't worry, you're not behind schedule.
    The girl who doesn't even have a pattern ;o)

    Oh and Happy Birthday to your husband!

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  7. I have never seen back measurements--kinda nice! I would go with the average and possibly mark for slim??? I have a question---is it necessary to put in side pockets with a muslin? I am making mine up and totally overlooked the side pockets. I guess....I should put them in...what do you think?

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  8. It's so frustrating when you can't find the answer to a simple question!

    I thought I'd added this to my review of these pants, but was probably in too much of a hurry. I sewed the curvy without taking any measurements. When I noticed some fitting issues I decided to go back and check the measurements. I'd cut out a 16 which is normal for me and according the the crotch measurement, well I was off the chart! Anyway, I agree with the others that say cut the Average and take it in if necessary.

    I'm sending some productive sewing vibes your way!

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  9. I found the pattern sizing confusing as well. I think you probably could sew the slim because of the 1 inch seam allowances. Good Luck. I am cutting my muslin now and keeping my fingers crossed.

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  10. I have never had the pleasure of choosing between slim and average but I have consulted Saints Palmer and Pletsch from the Pants for real people bible and the alteration for shortening the crotch is so simple it's not going to matter if you sew it too big first time round because it's so easy to fix.

    Go for average.

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  12. I'm going to go along with the crowd and say go for the average. Easier to take in than let out. Good luck!

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  13. This method is very familiar. "Adjusting Pants from Waist to Seat," by Joyce Murphy, Threads 122. She talks about "body space . . . that empty space between the two pieces had a shape all its own," created by the overall crotch length, crotch depth and crotch width, while keeping a close eye at where the crotch point is located.

    You might want to flat pattern measure the overall crotch length, front crotch length and back crotch length at the stitching lines. How much wearing ease would you like in that area? An inch or a little over an inch is what's in fashion these days. Does 24" include wearing ease, BTW?

    Being that your crotch point is somewhat equidistant, you most likely don't have a protruding abdomen, tilted pelvis nor a large seat.

    I don't think it will matter wether you pick average or slim. The difference between the size 8 slim and size 8 average is half an inch, finished garment measurement at the hip.

    I was unable to enlarge the Simplicity instructions, so I can't say much on their method. I wonder what is the difference between the crotch curve of the slim and average size eight. According to Joyce Murphy, pick out the size according to your hip. She also has her ways of increasing/decreasing the body space. Let me know if you would like more info on her Threads article.

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  14. Okay, this might be late, but this is how I interpreted the instructions:

    On the section with the diagram is says that the back crotch length changes for each of the figure types and that it is the key fit area for pants. Then it says to use that number to determine your figure type and to select your pattern pieces. I think they made a mistake by also listing the total crotch length with choices for figure type. I think that number is purely to choose your size and that the back crotch is to choose the figure type. That's how I read the first time and that is how I still see it. I say use slim. Good luck!

    FYI, I used to write conference packets and contest rules and regulations so I know confusing instructions when I see them.

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  15. My initial gut feeling (says she who does not make pants) is to cut the average and then take it in as needed?

    btw, it NEVER would have occurred to me to call Simplicity up to ask for advice!!

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  16. From what little I know of pattern drafting for pants, the difference between slim, average, curvy all lies in the angle and length of the back crotch curve. Slim will be the shortest and least angled. Of course, I'm just talking in general - have not seen this pattern. All the advice to cut the average for your muslin while marking for slim holds good. Good luck.

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